One more kick at this and then I will shut my cake hole :)
Ok...reviewed Phil Hodgens blog one more time and reviewed a partial answer to a question another poster had:
"The tax return you have to file depends on your status on December 31. Since an expatriate by definition is a nonresident, you file Form 1040NR, with a statement attached to report your income for the time you were a resident. That statement can be Form 1040 (that’s the simplest way to do it)."
Anyway, my point being that this substantiates (for me anyway) Nelsona's point that the 1040NR is for the entire year.
Another piece to my personal puzzle;
On my 1040, the Accountant has written "Dual Status Statement" and on my 1040 nr has written "Dual Status Return", again with no beginning and end dates at the top of page 1 on either return, therefore each return defaults to the "Jan 01 to Dec 31st" dates.
with this in mind, and the previous answer from Nelsona, would it not be justified for the Accountant NOT to type in exact dates on these forms (ie: Jan 01 to Oct 8th on the 1040)?
As Nelsona has pointed out the 1040 nr is for the entire year and Phil has pointed out that the 1040 is the attached 'statement' for when someone was a resident (for tax purposes).
In this case would the option for me to leave the fields blank on both forms (1040 & nr) using the tabulated dates (as written) Jan 01 to Dec 31st...or would one take the safe approach and write Jan 01 to Oct 8th on the 1040, and leave the 1040 nr for the entire year?
1040/1040nr
Moderator: Mark T Serbinski CA CPA
The dates on the top of 1040 and 1040NR are to describe your "tax year". You do not have a different "tax year" than jan 01 - Dec 31, so there is no point putting a partial year in that space. Besides, It mut be a full year.
Your 1040NR, along with your expat paperwork already staes the date you expatriated, so they will know when you became NR.
Is your accountant comitting a crime by putting dates there? No. From your posts, I'm not even sure if he did put those dates, and then only did it when you incorrectly complained that there were no dates.
Since it is extraneous information, it doesn;t matter that it is wrong. I'd be looking very carefully at the rest of my statement and return, however.
when you get the forms back, just cross out that information on both forms, if this makes you, the client, happier.
Your 1040NR, along with your expat paperwork already staes the date you expatriated, so they will know when you became NR.
Is your accountant comitting a crime by putting dates there? No. From your posts, I'm not even sure if he did put those dates, and then only did it when you incorrectly complained that there were no dates.
Since it is extraneous information, it doesn;t matter that it is wrong. I'd be looking very carefully at the rest of my statement and return, however.
when you get the forms back, just cross out that information on both forms, if this makes you, the client, happier.
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
Mach 7. If you filed dual status, using 1040 as a statement, how could your 1040NR have no income?
One is supposed to carry over the income from the 1040 to the 1040NR, and then calculate the tax on the 1040NR. One isn't even supposed to sign the 1040. It is simply a statement, not a return.
See the rouble you get when you din't just file a 1040?
One is supposed to carry over the income from the 1040 to the 1040NR, and then calculate the tax on the 1040NR. One isn't even supposed to sign the 1040. It is simply a statement, not a return.
See the rouble you get when you din't just file a 1040?
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
i believe you are all misinterpreting Dual-status.
Hogson has not explained this clearly, if he has lead you to believe that you file 2 returns.. You don;t.
In a departure year, for whatever reason, only your 1040NR 'counts'. Period. it is your only return.
Your 1040 is a ststement, capturing all you resident income. Then you trnaspose the figures to your 1040NR and calculate the tax.
There are no 2 tax returns.
Page 32 of Pub 519:
Nonresident at end of year. You must file Form 1040NR or Form 1040NR-EZ if you are a dual-status taxpayer who gives up residence in the United States during the year and who is not a U.S. resident on the last day of the tax year. Write “Dual-Status Return†across the top of the return. Attach a statement to your return to show the income for the part of the year you are a resident. You can use Form 1040 as the statement, but be sure to mark “Dual-Status Statement†across the top.
If you expatriated or terminated your resi-dency in 2012, you may be required to file an expatriation statement (Form 8854) with your tax return. For more information, see Expatria-tion Tax in chapter 4.
Statement. Any statement must have your name, address, and taxpayer identification number on it. You do not need to sign a sepa-rate statement or schedule accompanying your return, because your signature on the return also applies to the supporting statements and schedules.
Hogson has not explained this clearly, if he has lead you to believe that you file 2 returns.. You don;t.
In a departure year, for whatever reason, only your 1040NR 'counts'. Period. it is your only return.
Your 1040 is a ststement, capturing all you resident income. Then you trnaspose the figures to your 1040NR and calculate the tax.
There are no 2 tax returns.
Page 32 of Pub 519:
Nonresident at end of year. You must file Form 1040NR or Form 1040NR-EZ if you are a dual-status taxpayer who gives up residence in the United States during the year and who is not a U.S. resident on the last day of the tax year. Write “Dual-Status Return†across the top of the return. Attach a statement to your return to show the income for the part of the year you are a resident. You can use Form 1040 as the statement, but be sure to mark “Dual-Status Statement†across the top.
If you expatriated or terminated your resi-dency in 2012, you may be required to file an expatriation statement (Form 8854) with your tax return. For more information, see Expatria-tion Tax in chapter 4.
Statement. Any statement must have your name, address, and taxpayer identification number on it. You do not need to sign a sepa-rate statement or schedule accompanying your return, because your signature on the return also applies to the supporting statements and schedules.
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
Nelsona,
My situation and filing seems to mirror what one poster "Primo" wrote on the thread "Final tax return following Relinquishment". He wrote;
File 1040 for the period up to the date of relinquishment and 1040NR for the remainder of the tax year. Include an 8854. Write dual status tax year on the top of your 1040NR, make sure you sign all 3. Doesn't matter if it is this year or next, it's done the same.
Copy of your 8854 goes to the IRS in Philadelphia. Address is in the instructions. Doesn't go with the FBAR, they go to Detroit.
Basically, what is the differrence from his/her method, and many others, compared to mine? the only difference is my 1040 says "Dual Status Statement"
Again, you know better than I, but how or where does canadian income go on a 1040nr?
My situation and filing seems to mirror what one poster "Primo" wrote on the thread "Final tax return following Relinquishment". He wrote;
File 1040 for the period up to the date of relinquishment and 1040NR for the remainder of the tax year. Include an 8854. Write dual status tax year on the top of your 1040NR, make sure you sign all 3. Doesn't matter if it is this year or next, it's done the same.
Copy of your 8854 goes to the IRS in Philadelphia. Address is in the instructions. Doesn't go with the FBAR, they go to Detroit.
Basically, what is the differrence from his/her method, and many others, compared to mine? the only difference is my 1040 says "Dual Status Statement"
Again, you know better than I, but how or where does canadian income go on a 1040nr?
Thanks Nelsona. I am beginning to see the light now, although i am more confused than ever.
My option here is clear to me now. I will email this Accountant and demand some answers as clearly i am not ready to send this package south of the border.
My 1040 nr has my personal information listed on it, but all fields are blank with the exception of the line 40 personal exemption.
I might even have to ask for an extention until October to get this done.
I will post again after i speak with this individual.
My option here is clear to me now. I will email this Accountant and demand some answers as clearly i am not ready to send this package south of the border.
My 1040 nr has my personal information listed on it, but all fields are blank with the exception of the line 40 personal exemption.
I might even have to ask for an extention until October to get this done.
I will post again after i speak with this individual.
Primo should not have signed 1040, but no harm. Its as pointless as, say, putting dates at the top of your 1040 or 1040NR.
I'd have to see your 1040. i presume you also had to file 1116 or 2555 in order to reduce US tax on your Cdn income.
But, generally, wages from 1040 would go on the wage line, interest form 1040 would go on the interest line of 1040NR, etc.
Your 1040NR numbers woiuld be the same as 1040NR except for any US-sourced income you had from after your expat date. and this income would either go on the same line as your earlier income, or on the NEC schedule.
I'd have to see your 1040. i presume you also had to file 1116 or 2555 in order to reduce US tax on your Cdn income.
But, generally, wages from 1040 would go on the wage line, interest form 1040 would go on the interest line of 1040NR, etc.
Your 1040NR numbers woiuld be the same as 1040NR except for any US-sourced income you had from after your expat date. and this income would either go on the same line as your earlier income, or on the NEC schedule.
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
Nelsona,
at least i am clear on the tax dates and signing the dual status statement, thank you.
with respect to my 1040 (statement):
The 1040 has both form 1116 and 2555 attached.
would wages still go on 1040 nr if they were cancelled out or reduced to "0" by the FEIE?
maybe this is why these lines on the form are blank (?)
I have no us source income, so that answers another question for me
I did find the Accoutant included the NEC schedule, but it is blank as well.
at least i am clear on the tax dates and signing the dual status statement, thank you.
with respect to my 1040 (statement):
The 1040 has both form 1116 and 2555 attached.
would wages still go on 1040 nr if they were cancelled out or reduced to "0" by the FEIE?
maybe this is why these lines on the form are blank (?)
I have no us source income, so that answers another question for me
I did find the Accoutant included the NEC schedule, but it is blank as well.
Primo also wrote on this 'final tax' thread;
"The 1040 is up to the day before you renounce. The 1040 NR is for the day you renounce til the end of the year.
Personally, I renounced in December last year. I just pro-rated everything for the 1040, had zeroes for the 1040NR since I have no US income".
I am not saying he is correct, but rather trying to bridge a comparison as my situation is similar if not the same as his.
"The 1040 is up to the day before you renounce. The 1040 NR is for the day you renounce til the end of the year.
Personally, I renounced in December last year. I just pro-rated everything for the 1040, had zeroes for the 1040NR since I have no US income".
I am not saying he is correct, but rather trying to bridge a comparison as my situation is similar if not the same as his.
Dualupset
I was involved in that thread you mention re final tax return following relinq.
I went to an accounting firm for my final return and they calculated it very similar to yours. All my CDN income was calculated on the 1040 to the date of relinq. which was December 12 th 2012. Then the 1040 NR was also included showing all fields blank, except of course for personal info etc etc.
Maybe the solution to your problem lies in the date of your termination of citizenship?
Mine was so close to year end that maybe this is why my 1040 NR had zero's? Yours being in October might have something to do with this?? I am unsure but worth looking into.
Again, not sure why these firms north of the border want to go the dual status filing route, but obviously it increases the cost to the consumer.
I was involved in that thread you mention re final tax return following relinq.
I went to an accounting firm for my final return and they calculated it very similar to yours. All my CDN income was calculated on the 1040 to the date of relinq. which was December 12 th 2012. Then the 1040 NR was also included showing all fields blank, except of course for personal info etc etc.
Maybe the solution to your problem lies in the date of your termination of citizenship?
Mine was so close to year end that maybe this is why my 1040 NR had zero's? Yours being in October might have something to do with this?? I am unsure but worth looking into.
Again, not sure why these firms north of the border want to go the dual status filing route, but obviously it increases the cost to the consumer.
UPDATE!
My Account firm called the IRS for clarification on this matter..here is what they said for my situation.
I am filing a Dual Status Return, and since i am filing a dual status return;
the 1040 is a statement only and does not need to be signed
the 1040 has to show a date of Jan 01 to the day before renouncement (in my case October 7)
the 1040 nr must reflect a date of October 8 to December 31
Only U.S. source income goes on the 1040 nr. If it is not U.S. source income then they do not want to see any values.
My Account firm called the IRS for clarification on this matter..here is what they said for my situation.
I am filing a Dual Status Return, and since i am filing a dual status return;
the 1040 is a statement only and does not need to be signed
the 1040 has to show a date of Jan 01 to the day before renouncement (in my case October 7)
the 1040 nr must reflect a date of October 8 to December 31
Only U.S. source income goes on the 1040 nr. If it is not U.S. source income then they do not want to see any values.
My pre-renunciation income is all canadian source and paid tax to the CRA.
I understand what you are saying about the IRS tele-operators, but i will tabulate the dates as advised, since this Accountant Firm can discuss this with the IRS if it comes back to me.
and like you said, tax dates or no tax dates it probably makes as much difference as signing the 1040 statement when they tell you not too.
The tele-flunky, along with my Accountant, advised that unless I have us source income then nothing goes on the 1040 nr as i am filing a dual status return.
I might have confused the issue in my previous posts and eluded to the fact that i had income from the usa...not sure
thank yoiu Nelsona for your patience and help on this.
I understand what you are saying about the IRS tele-operators, but i will tabulate the dates as advised, since this Accountant Firm can discuss this with the IRS if it comes back to me.
and like you said, tax dates or no tax dates it probably makes as much difference as signing the 1040 statement when they tell you not too.
The tele-flunky, along with my Accountant, advised that unless I have us source income then nothing goes on the 1040 nr as i am filing a dual status return.
I might have confused the issue in my previous posts and eluded to the fact that i had income from the usa...not sure
thank yoiu Nelsona for your patience and help on this.