I have just discovered this site and read everything I can about the 8891's, but wanted to clarify a couple of things. I have never filed the 89-45 or the 2002-23 and am a Canadian citizen living in the U.S. since 1994 with RRSP's sitting in accounts and growing. However, I have filed the TD F 90-22.1 every year required with my RRSP's itemized, so I'm thinking at least this means the IRS is aware of their existence. Now I need to catch up and this is what I think I need to do: 1. file 8891 for 2004 2. file Rev. Proc. 2002-23 for years 2002 & 2003 3. file 89-45 for all years from 1994 to 2001. Is this correct? Or do I only go back six years to 1998? (and if I can only go back to 98, does this mean I would be eventually taxed on earnings from 1994-97?) Can I do Rev. Proc. 2002-23 instead of 89-45 for the years prior to 2002, even though it didn't exist then?
Thank you - this site has been very helpful!
Form 8891 questions here please!!!!
Moderator: Mark T Serbinski CA CPA
I would not be bothering with any 89-45 filings, as these are really out of date.
I would file the required RP 02-23 for 1998, and copy this for all subsequent years, adding the year-end value for the 2003 copy.
On 8891 I would indicate 1998 as my first year of election.
RP 02-23 had provision to go back prior to 2002, so this is acceptable.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
I would file the required RP 02-23 for 1998, and copy this for all subsequent years, adding the year-end value for the 2003 copy.
On 8891 I would indicate 1998 as my first year of election.
RP 02-23 had provision to go back prior to 2002, so this is acceptable.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
Re Form 6868, It says
"If you are a US citizen "out of the country" (that's us)...You are allowed 2 extra months to file your return. (i.e. June 15th. This part, we already knew.)<i></i>File this return if you need an additional 2 months to file your return. <i></i> Write "Taxpayer Abroad" across the top of Form 4868."
So if my friend mails off this form by tomorrow, she'll automatically have an extension till August 15th. Voilà!
"If you are a US citizen "out of the country" (that's us)...You are allowed 2 extra months to file your return. (i.e. June 15th. This part, we already knew.)<i></i>File this return if you need an additional 2 months to file your return. <i></i> Write "Taxpayer Abroad" across the top of Form 4868."
So if my friend mails off this form by tomorrow, she'll automatically have an extension till August 15th. Voilà!
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nelsona</i>
I would file the required RP 02-23 for 1998, and copy this for all subsequent years, adding the year-end value for the 2003 copy.
On 8891 I would indicate 1998 as my first year of election.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
What a great site! Please confirm that this is correct procedure - I've read both sites on catching up with RP 02-23 etc. and I believe I do the following:
I am exactly in the same situation as Mary, except I have two RRSP accounts, one started in 1996 and the other in 1998. I started the treaty claims in 2001 (can't believe I didn't realize I had to "catch up" but I'm not an accountant for VERY good reasons), so I believe to catch up I will do the following:
1) For each tax year from 1996 to 2000, file a 1040-X with RP 02-23 statements for the 1996 account in '96-'97, and both accounts from '98-2000.
2) I mail IN SEPARATE envelopes the five 1040-X with the RP 02-23s, with the 2000 return containing the balance from that year (if I can find it) for both accounts.
3) On my 8891s for 2004 I will declare 1996 and 1998 as my first year of election.
Right? Corrections greatly appreciated....
Reconstructing this has brought up another question - although I'm several years away from converting my RRSPs, do I need to keep track of interest and stuff or will my withdrawals be viewed as simple income to be reported to the IRS? I'm really unsure about what records to keep on my RRSPs for the retirement years.
<font color="green"><b>Thanks for all your help Nelson</b>!</font id="green">
I would file the required RP 02-23 for 1998, and copy this for all subsequent years, adding the year-end value for the 2003 copy.
On 8891 I would indicate 1998 as my first year of election.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
What a great site! Please confirm that this is correct procedure - I've read both sites on catching up with RP 02-23 etc. and I believe I do the following:
I am exactly in the same situation as Mary, except I have two RRSP accounts, one started in 1996 and the other in 1998. I started the treaty claims in 2001 (can't believe I didn't realize I had to "catch up" but I'm not an accountant for VERY good reasons), so I believe to catch up I will do the following:
1) For each tax year from 1996 to 2000, file a 1040-X with RP 02-23 statements for the 1996 account in '96-'97, and both accounts from '98-2000.
2) I mail IN SEPARATE envelopes the five 1040-X with the RP 02-23s, with the 2000 return containing the balance from that year (if I can find it) for both accounts.
3) On my 8891s for 2004 I will declare 1996 and 1998 as my first year of election.
Right? Corrections greatly appreciated....
Reconstructing this has brought up another question - although I'm several years away from converting my RRSPs, do I need to keep track of interest and stuff or will my withdrawals be viewed as simple income to be reported to the IRS? I'm really unsure about what records to keep on my RRSPs for the retirement years.
<font color="green"><b>Thanks for all your help Nelson</b>!</font id="green">
As I've been reconstructing my history of RRSP contributions and earnings, I've come across yet another question. I hope you haven't run out of patience! [:I]
Nelson explained (June 9th) I should use the earnings I reported, rather than the actual earnings, for past years. The question is, what about the years when I didn't file at all?
(I'm a US citizen living in Canada. I filed "catch-up" US tax returns for 7 years, so 1989 was the first year I reported earnings. During that time, I never deferred the RRSP, but reported the year's RRSP income (or what I <i>thought</i> the earnings were). Since it fell beneath the personal exemption amount, I thought it could be advantageous to me when I began to live on them in retirement.)
For 1979-1988, should I record the year's earnings each year as if I did file returns? I didn't defer those earnings, but I didn't declare them on any tax return, either, so they're kind of in limbo. Has anyone seen this come up? Any opinions?
Nelson explained (June 9th) I should use the earnings I reported, rather than the actual earnings, for past years. The question is, what about the years when I didn't file at all?
(I'm a US citizen living in Canada. I filed "catch-up" US tax returns for 7 years, so 1989 was the first year I reported earnings. During that time, I never deferred the RRSP, but reported the year's RRSP income (or what I <i>thought</i> the earnings were). Since it fell beneath the personal exemption amount, I thought it could be advantageous to me when I began to live on them in retirement.)
For 1979-1988, should I record the year's earnings each year as if I did file returns? I didn't defer those earnings, but I didn't declare them on any tax return, either, so they're kind of in limbo. Has anyone seen this come up? Any opinions?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I hope you haven't run out of patience<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sorry, I have, marge.
Thanks for playing. What do we have for her, Gene?
"A free trip to .... Iceland... for one, so that there is no trace of any relationships!"
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
Sorry, I have, marge.
Thanks for playing. What do we have for her, Gene?
"A free trip to .... Iceland... for one, so that there is no trace of any relationships!"
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nelsona</i>
What did you do for 2002/2003?
And what's with this separate envelope thing? Where did you read that?
And you only needed the year-end balance on 2003 tax year, so why add it to all other years.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Re: 2002/2003 - I filed RP 02-23 statements for both accounts. So, I have filed RP-02 23 for each account in the years 2001-2003, Form 8891 for each account for 2004, and nothing for 1996-2000 (only found this site a couple of weeks ago and I didn't realize I had to do that).
I believe I only have to "catch up" for the years 1996-2000 to avoid taxes and penalties for those years.
I guess I'm confused on two points:
a) Do my RP 02-23s for 1996-2000 have to have balances or have I taken care of that with my statments beginning in 2001 (all of which have the latest balances included - I've never really understood that bit about "use the same election in each year and just update the balance" <font color="red"><b>as it applies to amending my return</b></font id="red">)
b) I assumed I have to mail the 1040-Xs separately to keep things straight at the IRS. Since you're questioning it I guess I can just send everything in all at once.
Thanks for all your help Nelson.
What did you do for 2002/2003?
And what's with this separate envelope thing? Where did you read that?
And you only needed the year-end balance on 2003 tax year, so why add it to all other years.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Re: 2002/2003 - I filed RP 02-23 statements for both accounts. So, I have filed RP-02 23 for each account in the years 2001-2003, Form 8891 for each account for 2004, and nothing for 1996-2000 (only found this site a couple of weeks ago and I didn't realize I had to do that).
I believe I only have to "catch up" for the years 1996-2000 to avoid taxes and penalties for those years.
I guess I'm confused on two points:
a) Do my RP 02-23s for 1996-2000 have to have balances or have I taken care of that with my statments beginning in 2001 (all of which have the latest balances included - I've never really understood that bit about "use the same election in each year and just update the balance" <font color="red"><b>as it applies to amending my return</b></font id="red">)
b) I assumed I have to mail the 1040-Xs separately to keep things straight at the IRS. Since you're questioning it I guess I can just send everything in all at once.
Thanks for all your help Nelson.
As the Rev Proc is worded, the election statement did not have to change from year to year once the first one was made, so the exact statement made for the 1996 year (had one decided to catch up back to that date) could be sent for every subsequent year regardless of any activity in the account (contribution, withdrawal, etc) EXCEPT for a transfer from/to another account. The statement was only supposed to have the Beginning of year balance for the first election year, and nothing else.
Only for the 2003 year was a year-end balance required (per Notice 2003-75).
As to how far you go back, 6 years is plenty.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
Only for the 2003 year was a year-end balance required (per Notice 2003-75).
As to how far you go back, 6 years is plenty.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
I am working on filing my 1040X's, and RP-02 23 's for past years as well as 8891's for this year and have two questions.
1. My RRSP account lists me as the account owner and my husband as the beneficiary. Should the 8891 that goes with this account list me or my husband on the "name shown on form 1040" line at the top of form 8891? I plan to check "beneficiary" on line 5. My husband and I have always filed jointly and I have always filed the TD F 90-22.1 that goes with this account under my own name.
2. Several years ago I filed a 1040 with an incorrect social security number for one of my children. IRS notified me that I owed more tax money. Once I corrected the SSN, I ended up getting the refund I had originally requested. Does this count as being changed or audited - in other words should I check "yes" or "no" on line B of the corresponding 1040X?
Your help has been invaluable - thank you so much!
1. My RRSP account lists me as the account owner and my husband as the beneficiary. Should the 8891 that goes with this account list me or my husband on the "name shown on form 1040" line at the top of form 8891? I plan to check "beneficiary" on line 5. My husband and I have always filed jointly and I have always filed the TD F 90-22.1 that goes with this account under my own name.
2. Several years ago I filed a 1040 with an incorrect social security number for one of my children. IRS notified me that I owed more tax money. Once I corrected the SSN, I ended up getting the refund I had originally requested. Does this count as being changed or audited - in other words should I check "yes" or "no" on line B of the corresponding 1040X?
Your help has been invaluable - thank you so much!
I have sent Deferral according to Rev. Notice 2003-75 for 2003 with 2003 tax return in 2004. Then I found out that I have to defer 2001 & 2002 also and I have sent RP 02-23 statements with 1040-X for 2001 and 2002.
Now I am getting ready to mail 2004 tax with 8891. I withdrew all my RRSP in 2004. My question is do I have to send again the photocopies of all previously sent deferral statements mentioned above with 2004 tax return and 8891?
Now I am getting ready to mail 2004 tax with 8891. I withdrew all my RRSP in 2004. My question is do I have to send again the photocopies of all previously sent deferral statements mentioned above with 2004 tax return and 8891?
I withdrew RRSP of US $1500 in 2004. Out of that US $550 came from RPP from a company in Canada I rolled over to RRSP in 2003. I read that October 2004 the rules changed regarding reporting RPP. But I withdrew my RRSP in Feb 2004. How do I treat this for reporting in 8891 and 1040. How to find out cost basis? I don't have any information from the company as to how much I had when I became a US resident. I only know how much rolled over to RRSP. So what is my taxable income for that amount came from RRP?