USC residing in Canada commuting to work in US.
Employer now offers option of Designated Roth 401(k) with employer match.
It appears from IRS Pub 4530 that this is different from standard ROTH IRA. There are no income limits - standard ROTH capped at 160K - and the employer match portion must go into a standard 401(k) and thus is tax deferred.
I am aware that changes to Canada-US Tax Protocol are pending and will eventually make regular 401K contributions deductible in Canada.
Until this happens, however, does it make sense to contribute to the Designated ROTH plan to get the employer match?
It would appear to me that my own contributions are taxed in both Canada and US, and earnings in the Designated ROTH portion of the 401(k) will be taxed in Canada, at least until the new Protocol is ratified. The employer match going into the standard 401(k) would not be taxed in Canada or USA until withdrawl. I could use an RRSP contribution in Canada to offset any additional tax from the Designated ROTH portion of the 401K, which would be minimal for a few years at least anyway, since plan is starting from zero.
This sounds too simple, what have I missed?
Designated ROTH 401(k)
Moderator: Mark T Serbinski CA CPA
Without getting into the details about various types of Roths, I would point out one thing that is emerging from the new treaty provisions on Roth.
Roths contributed to by anyone (employer or worker) for the benefit of someone living in Canada will NOT be protected.
Only roth contributions made while resident in US will be exempt from cdn taxation at withdrawal.
So be careful.
Ordinary 401(k) contributions will be deductible in both countries, regardless of residence.
Roths contributed to by anyone (employer or worker) for the benefit of someone living in Canada will NOT be protected.
Only roth contributions made while resident in US will be exempt from cdn taxation at withdrawal.
So be careful.
Ordinary 401(k) contributions will be deductible in both countries, regardless of residence.
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
Canada does not consider a ROTH IRA as a pension pre-protocol.
This means contributions not deductible, growth is taxible, withdrawl NOT taxible since contribution and growth already taxed. In effect, a bank account. Correct?
The protcol language does state that if a resident of one country (Canada, presumably) contributes to a ROTH IRA it will not be considered a pension. This would mean the status quo does not change.
Are you suggesting that CCRA would now want to tax *withdrawls* ?
(as well as plan growth)?
This means contributions not deductible, growth is taxible, withdrawl NOT taxible since contribution and growth already taxed. In effect, a bank account. Correct?
The protcol language does state that if a resident of one country (Canada, presumably) contributes to a ROTH IRA it will not be considered a pension. This would mean the status quo does not change.
Are you suggesting that CCRA would now want to tax *withdrawls* ?
(as well as plan growth)?
As you say, a Roth currently is not recognized by CRA. As such, any contributions made are not deductible (they aren't in US eirther of course), the yearly internal income is taxable (not sheltered). There is no tax upon withdrawl, since, really, you are not withdrawing anything out of a sheltered plan.
It is the yearly tax that makes Roths less valuable for Cdns.
The protocol will change nothing for Cdn residents in this regard. However, Cdns working and living in US, will see their Roths now sheltered, AND withdrawn tax-free in both US and canada, regarldess of where they live at the time of withdrawal.
So, for you, and those like you, living in Canada and working in US, the question is why use Roths after the protocol, when 401(k) will now be completely tax-deductible and sheltered in both countries? You would be in effect throwing away a yearly tax deduction, in favour of a fully taxable account.
It is the yearly tax that makes Roths less valuable for Cdns.
The protocol will change nothing for Cdn residents in this regard. However, Cdns working and living in US, will see their Roths now sheltered, AND withdrawn tax-free in both US and canada, regarldess of where they live at the time of withdrawal.
So, for you, and those like you, living in Canada and working in US, the question is why use Roths after the protocol, when 401(k) will now be completely tax-deductible and sheltered in both countries? You would be in effect throwing away a yearly tax deduction, in favour of a fully taxable account.
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
So, what I'm saying is that the current pension/Roth/IRA/401(k) situation for Cdn residents working in US is in one word: lousy.
With the new protocol, 401(k) become a WHOLE LOT more attractive, while Roths stay just as lousy.
With the new protocol, 401(k) become a WHOLE LOT more attractive, while Roths stay just as lousy.
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
OK, that makes sense.
I am only thinking of using the Designated ROTH 401(k) contribution option until the new protcol is signed and in effect. Then, of course, I would switch to making standard 401(k) contributions.
Until the protcol is signed, it looks like a reasonable option in order to get the employer match - which goes into the regular 401K part of the plan and thus isn't taxed in Canada pre or post new protcol (until withdrawl) . I'll pay tax on the growth in the Designated Roth portion of the plan yearly until withdrawl, of course, but hopefully it will only be on a year's worth of contributions and I can offset it with an RRSP contribution.
Is there any report on ratification progress? I could not find any pending bill on the Canadian Parliamentary web site.
I am only thinking of using the Designated ROTH 401(k) contribution option until the new protcol is signed and in effect. Then, of course, I would switch to making standard 401(k) contributions.
Until the protcol is signed, it looks like a reasonable option in order to get the employer match - which goes into the regular 401K part of the plan and thus isn't taxed in Canada pre or post new protcol (until withdrawl) . I'll pay tax on the growth in the Designated Roth portion of the plan yearly until withdrawl, of course, but hopefully it will only be on a year's worth of contributions and I can offset it with an RRSP contribution.
Is there any report on ratification progress? I could not find any pending bill on the Canadian Parliamentary web site.