In a Mess

This is our main tax information forum which deals with topics concerning Canadians living and working in the U.S., U.S. citizens contemplating working in Canada, and all aspects of Canadian and U.S. income tax and related adminstrative issues.

Moderator: Mark T Serbinski CA CPA

Post Reply
ignorantfool
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:04 pm

In a Mess

Post by ignorantfool »

last month i got a call from a friend of mine in Toronto who told me about Fbar filing i was totally clueless.
My situation is i moved to the US in 2007 and have never filed any Fbars, 2 weeks ago i called CRA to get all my pending T5s and their were quiet a few totaling close to 3600$ in a 7 year spam.

To make matter much much worst in 2007 although i worked in the US and got paid in US the company that i worked for decided to dump all of that money in my Canadian corp. My cross border expert account (sic) filed all my taxes in Canada issued me a T4 filed taxes in full and told me don't worry we have a treaty and like a fool i said ok

I am trying not to scream and cry in front of my wife as we are expecting our firstborn next month.

I need some advice and it seems like the end of the world for me


I called a new accounting in BC.
He said the following
1) Refile the 2007 tax return in the US along with a form 5471
2) he will handle the Fbar filing but is waiting for all paperwork so he can decide weather to take ovdp or quiet disclosure.
3) The only silver lining (sic) once again is that i had a brokerage firm in Toronto with around a 20k loss. in the past 6-7 years

Can anyone give this fool an advise?
Taxpoor
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:14 am
Location: Canada

Post by Taxpoor »

First of all don't panic.

It seems that you are going in the right direction and trying to correct something you were unaware of....and believe me you are not alone.

As far as capital loss...it does not make a bit of difference...the Us Department of the Treasury only wants to know the existence of the account and the value of the account, they don't care about how much you lost or how much you gained.

If I were you I would file my own FBARs....nobody knows your accounts better than you, and if you rely on an accountant to undertake this task, you might end up in a worse situation than before.

I only say this from past experience, as I was lucky enough to see his 'disaster on paper' before I elected to do them myself...they are not hard to do, however have to be filed electronically.

You will also have to file a reasonable cause letter explaining why you did not file your past and present FBARs...this is the only avenue to alleviate a possible penalty, and I do mean possible.

I would stay away from OVDP...IMO this is for tax criminals, and it does not appear that you are one of them.

There is only one individual I would trust to handle these cross-border issues...and I am hoping you are dealing with him.

I am not sure if I can mention his name here, but he has posted here before on occasion and has helped me out when I was going through my "screaming and crying in from of my wife" stage.

His initials are PH from Victoria...is this your guy?
ignorantfool
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:04 pm

Post by ignorantfool »

My guys is from Vancouver son of a famous tax attorney his initial are Pi
My accountant has asked me the same to prepare my own Fbar he has provided me with a sheet so i am in the process of finishing touch i am missing some GICs and will call the Bank tomorrow to finilize

Thanks so much i really appreciate it, i don't even know what's worst. Didn't know that this needed to be informed to the IRS or deliberately hiding this from my wife...
ignorantfool
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:04 pm

Post by ignorantfool »

Taxpoor does his email address ends with a son.ca? Your guy?
Thanks
Taxpoor
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:14 am
Location: Canada

Post by Taxpoor »

Just remember, most accountants will steer you to ovdp because it has the least amount of question marks for them however ends up costing you upwards of 30 percent of your accounts
Taxpoor
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:14 am
Location: Canada

Post by Taxpoor »

nope ...no son.ca....but his last name was a popular show in the 60's...hogans hero's.
ignorantfool
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:04 pm

Post by ignorantfool »

Thanks Taxpoor
ignorantfool
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:04 pm

Post by ignorantfool »

This is so bizarre. I have called 6 Cpas everyone with a different answer to my problem

The new one that i contacted actually told me to enter the OVDP program otherwise he said " i am not saying that there can be criminal charges but he has seen worst"
I told him criminal charges for what? for amending tax return that i didn't i was suppose to pay in the US?

Just recalculated everything again for the past 3 year i earned interest around 1200$ combined and a Brokerage account with a loss of close to 20k

Is this the reason why everyone joins the ovdp program because of CPAs and tax attorney quoting the biblical doom scenario?
Still so confused...
nelsona
Posts: 18311
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:33 pm
Location: Nowhere, man

Post by nelsona »

The reason people do OVDP is because that is all that is left. Prior to that quiet disclosure was the best and simplest method. I had advised it for 10 years!!

Trouble was (a) few people listened and (b) your point: Faced with dwindling revenues because a monkey can do a SIMPLE tax retunr with online software, CPAs saw this as a gravy train, and likley PETITIONED the IRS to manke OVDP mandatory. They essentailly get a cut (from their fees) for herding people into the program. To sell it more strongly they amped up the possible consequences.
nelsona non grata. Non pro. Please Search previous posts, no situation is unique as you might think. Happy Browsing :D
ignorantfool
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:04 pm

Post by ignorantfool »

Nelson the cpa that i am going with and i am still waiting for all my pending T5's from Canada told me that he will simply amend the prior year return and add the interest earned.

Based on what you said it seems he can't simply amend those returns? I know that his accounting firm has been doing this for a while and i have a few friends who quietly disclosed in September of last year and this year as well.

They haven't heard anything yet i am assuming it means nothing just that its either in review etc?
DonMurphyCanada
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:41 pm

Post by DonMurphyCanada »

What are you amending - which form? My understanding is you can refine for the last 3 years which would include 2011, 2012 & 2013. How far back do you need to file and have you computed to see if anything is owning on a per year basis?

Honestly I am not sure if any of this matters as I am not the expert here.

Don


[quote="ignorantfool"]Nelson the cpa that i am going with and i am still waiting for all my pending T5's from Canada told me that he will simply amend the prior year return and add the interest earned.

Based on what you said it seems he can't simply amend those returns? I know that his accounting firm has been doing this for a while and i have a few friends who quietly disclosed in September of last year and this year as well.

They haven't heard anything yet i am assuming it means nothing just that its either in review etc?[/quote]
DonMurphyCanada
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:41 pm

Post by DonMurphyCanada »

Actually that is 2010 2011 & 2012 because 2013 is not due quite yet...

[quote="DonMurphyCanada"]What are you amending - which form? My understanding is you can refine for the last 3 years which would include 2011, 2012 & 2013. How far back do you need to file and have you computed to see if anything is owning on a per year basis?

Honestly I am not sure if any of this matters as I am not the expert here.

Don


[quote="ignorantfool"]Nelson the cpa that i am going with and i am still waiting for all my pending T5's from Canada told me that he will simply amend the prior year return and add the interest earned.

Based on what you said it seems he can't simply amend those returns? I know that his accounting firm has been doing this for a while and i have a few friends who quietly disclosed in September of last year and this year as well.

They haven't heard anything yet i am assuming it means nothing just that its either in review etc?[/quote][/quote]
ignorantfool
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:04 pm

Post by ignorantfool »

Sorry Don i did not understand a word you said.
[/quote]
ignorantfool
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:04 pm

Post by ignorantfool »

I had to edit this post so user's can have a clear understanding of my post.


The new attorney i spoke and the initial accountant i spoke with are two separate firms. The initial one form my post an accounting firm in Vancouver (i will be doing my taxes with them ) the second firm in US (which i won't)

I will be dealing with the initial firm in Vancouver as they have been honest with me an that's the only thing one can hope the rest is fate. No doom gloom scenarios

The new attorney that i spoke with yesterday is from US i won't be dealing with that firm funny thing is that he contradicted himself on several occasion felt like Noah(movie) If you have watched it you will understand the irony :)
DonMurphyCanada
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:41 pm

Post by DonMurphyCanada »

Sorry not sure how that glitched like that...

What are you amending - which form? My understanding is you can amend for the last 3 years which would include 2010, 2011 & 2012. How far back do you need to file and have you computed each year to see if anything is owning on a per year basis?
Post Reply