My wife worked for 18 years in the US before moving to Canada, and has worked 25 years in Canada (self-employed, part time, no pension). I have estimated her CPP, OAS and basic Social Security benefits (SSb) using on line calcuators. I also calculated her WEP, and it appears to be the limiting value of 1/2 her CPP benefit, i.e. her net Social Security benefit, SS = SSb - WEP = SSb - 1/2 CPP. I will also be eligible for a spousal benefit of 1/2 her benefit, i.e. SSs = 1/2 SS = 1/2 (SSb-1/2 CPP). The WEP produces a nearly 30% reduction in both benefits.
But how does this work in practice? For unreduced benefits, she intends to take CPP at age 65, and SS at 66. Does she disclose the amount of her CPP benefit to Social Security when she applies for SS, or do CPP and SS automatically share this information?
Also, is the WEP recalculated annually? Both CPP and SSb go up every year by Cost of Living Adjustments, but the US and Canadian COLAs are different. Then there is the whole issue of exchange rates. I assume Social Security converts her CPP benefit into US $ before calculating her WEP.
If anyone has already gone through this process, please let me know your experience.
Calculating WEP
Moderator: Mark T Serbinski CA CPA
She will share this info when she applies, or when she begins to take the benefits. She has to.
It would be qworth fighting this. See Dale Waters at Keats Connelly about this.
It would be qworth fighting this. See Dale Waters at Keats Connelly about this.
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
I belive it is done re-done only of there is an additional pension benefit (remember, it's not only CPP but any Cdn pension that is taken into account), not for administrative adjustments like cola.
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
I few days ago I spoke to someone at the Niagara Falls, NY Social Security Administration (that handles the Toronto area). I had a long and informative conversation (which I take it, is a rare occurrence) about WEP, so I thought I would share it with the forum. By the way, don't bother E-mailing questions to SSA. They just respond with links to the supposedly relevant places on their website, which of course, you have already read, and they didn't answer your questions in the first place.
1) According to the person I spoke to, an SS recipient is required to report any changes in their non-SS pensions, which theoretically at least, would include reporting the annual small increase in CPP, so they can recalculate the WEP. This could actually prove advantageous for my wife, if the SS COLA is greater than the CPP COLA, (as has been the case historically) or if the Can$ falls against the US$.
2) Since I have never worked in the US, I knew that I was eligible for a spousal benefit of 1/2 my wife's benefit. Since this is issued in my name, I asked whether it would be subject to a WEP based on MY CPP and workplace pensions. The answer is No. The guiding principle is that WEP applies only when the same person has worked in and receives benefits from 2 different countries.
3) By the same token, if my wife dies before me, I would receive a survivor benefit from SS with no WEP.
4) If I die before my wife (actuarially more likely), then she would receive a survivor benefit of 60% of my CPP, which combined with her personal CPP would bring her total up to the maximum individual CPP. Her survivor CPP should not be included in calculating her WEP for SS. Note that CPP says that the personal and survivor benefits would be combined into a single payment, so it is up to the individual to keep track of what % of that payment is personal CPP.
5) By the same token, my wife would receive a survivor benefit of 60% of my workplace pension, which, since it is not based on HER work record, would not be included in her WEP.
I would still be interested in hearing from anyone who has actually dealt with these issues.
1) According to the person I spoke to, an SS recipient is required to report any changes in their non-SS pensions, which theoretically at least, would include reporting the annual small increase in CPP, so they can recalculate the WEP. This could actually prove advantageous for my wife, if the SS COLA is greater than the CPP COLA, (as has been the case historically) or if the Can$ falls against the US$.
2) Since I have never worked in the US, I knew that I was eligible for a spousal benefit of 1/2 my wife's benefit. Since this is issued in my name, I asked whether it would be subject to a WEP based on MY CPP and workplace pensions. The answer is No. The guiding principle is that WEP applies only when the same person has worked in and receives benefits from 2 different countries.
3) By the same token, if my wife dies before me, I would receive a survivor benefit from SS with no WEP.
4) If I die before my wife (actuarially more likely), then she would receive a survivor benefit of 60% of my CPP, which combined with her personal CPP would bring her total up to the maximum individual CPP. Her survivor CPP should not be included in calculating her WEP for SS. Note that CPP says that the personal and survivor benefits would be combined into a single payment, so it is up to the individual to keep track of what % of that payment is personal CPP.
5) By the same token, my wife would receive a survivor benefit of 60% of my workplace pension, which, since it is not based on HER work record, would not be included in her WEP.
I would still be interested in hearing from anyone who has actually dealt with these issues.
You won't find anyone here. Keats Connelly is a better place. Other than point 1, the other points were known (to me at least).
on points 2 and 3: I assume that that since WEP affects her SS, her WEP thus affects your SS and your eventual survivor benefit. Is that correct?
Thanks for the research.
on points 2 and 3: I assume that that since WEP affects her SS, her WEP thus affects your SS and your eventual survivor benefit. Is that correct?
Thanks for the research.
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
Found my own answer: WEP affects the spousal amount, but does is eliminated from any calculation of survivor benefits.
http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers ... -survivors
http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers ... -survivors
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
I knew that the spousal amount is reduced by my wife's WEP, i.e. SSspousal = 1/2 SSwife = 1/2 (SSbasic wife - WEPwife) = 1/2 (SSbasic wife - 1/2 CPPwife). My concern was that there would be a further WEP reduction based on MY non-SS pensions, which would reduce the spousal amount to zero. That is not the case.