Hi,
I have a total of 32 US Social Security points/credits and I would qualify for Social Security payments upon retirement in the future using the years I contributed to Canadian CPP.
My question is: if I pass away before retirement with only 32 SS credits, would my spouse be able to get my Social Secirity payments that she would be entitled to as a widower ? I mean, would the CPP years of a deceased person count towards meeting the minimum requiremetns for US Social Security (40 points/credits) ?
Thanks for feedback on this.
JJDD
can widow qualify for SS using deceased spouse CPP credits ?
Moderator: Mark T Serbinski CA CPA
As I said on the other forum, survivor pensions are NOT strictly awarded based on the deceased spouse themselves being eligible for SS. That is why your current SS statements every year show a survivor benefit for your dependants even though you do not qualify for SS (without the agreement).
As such, the totalization agreement, which is only used to "qualify" for benefits that would otherwise be unavailable, does not apply in this case, since it quite likely that your surviving spouse already qualifies.
What does your current SSA statement say?
As such, the totalization agreement, which is only used to "qualify" for benefits that would otherwise be unavailable, does not apply in this case, since it quite likely that your surviving spouse already qualifies.
What does your current SSA statement say?
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
Hi, I had erroneusly assumed that there was a dependency in the report between the individual's 40 SS credits and the SS survivor benefits. Thank you for pointing out that this is not the case, the SS statement clearly says that the surviving dependents would qualify for benefits now even though I only have 32 points. I greatly appreciate that you were able to clarify this.
I wonder whether (36 SS points + CPP credits) vs (40 SS points) would be better in the future in light of the impact of WEP deductions, but at least this is only an issue of WEP, and not an issue where I would also need to be concerned about future survivor benefits.
JJDD
I wonder whether (36 SS points + CPP credits) vs (40 SS points) would be better in the future in light of the impact of WEP deductions, but at least this is only an issue of WEP, and not an issue where I would also need to be concerned about future survivor benefits.
JJDD
36 credits will yield about 81% of what 40 credits will pay, so it is doubtful that WEP would penalize you as much as that. But, you are corrct that WEP does not apply if you do not have 40 credits.
That said, 40 credits gets you medicare eligibility, and don't forget that your spouse, if she worked very little or not at all in US, gets amn added benefit of half your SS, so it would appear to me to always be better to get as many credits as you can. I would NOT stop below 40 just to circumvent WEP.
I *believe* that the spousal benefit is only available to those with 40 credits, but I am not 100% sure of this.
That said, 40 credits gets you medicare eligibility, and don't forget that your spouse, if she worked very little or not at all in US, gets amn added benefit of half your SS, so it would appear to me to always be better to get as many credits as you can. I would NOT stop below 40 just to circumvent WEP.
I *believe* that the spousal benefit is only available to those with 40 credits, but I am not 100% sure of this.
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
Hi Nelsona, which 'spousal benefit' do you refer to inyour last sentence ?
Also, if I were to work inthe US next year just long enough to earn $6K, would I get 4 credits since the earning required per quarter is approx $1.5K per quarter ? Or is there a time criteria in addition to an income criteria to get a SS credit ?
JJDD
Also, if I were to work inthe US next year just long enough to earn $6K, would I get 4 credits since the earning required per quarter is approx $1.5K per quarter ? Or is there a time criteria in addition to an income criteria to get a SS credit ?
JJDD
Spouses recieve -- at a minimum -- 1/2 of what the other spouse gets.
Example: you work enough such that your SS benefit is $1000. When you retire, you get $1000 AND your spouse gets $500 (assuming she doesn't qualify for more on her own).
to amass 4 credirt, you merly need to have ~$6000 of earnings .Period. It does not have to be spread over any time period.
As you know, one gets SS if one works for as little a 6 quarters (using the agrrement. Well, one could easily earn ths by working, say, december of one year and January of the next, and never setting foot in US ever again. So, you could concievably get SS (albeit a small amount) for 2 months work.
Example: you work enough such that your SS benefit is $1000. When you retire, you get $1000 AND your spouse gets $500 (assuming she doesn't qualify for more on her own).
to amass 4 credirt, you merly need to have ~$6000 of earnings .Period. It does not have to be spread over any time period.
As you know, one gets SS if one works for as little a 6 quarters (using the agrrement. Well, one could easily earn ths by working, say, december of one year and January of the next, and never setting foot in US ever again. So, you could concievably get SS (albeit a small amount) for 2 months work.
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
Interesting.
I do have one more question linked to this topic.
Say I work in 2014 for 4 weeks to get 4 extra SS credits (to total 40), and then I leave the US to work elsewhere. And say that I meet the 183 day residency requirement at the time I depart (183 days in last 3 years); the US would then consider me resident for tax purposes for all of 2014. Does this mean that I will have pay the US taxes on my worldwide income for the entire 2014 year (except for whatever treaties may be in place for the country I go to) ?
And conversely, say I am outside the US in 2014 for the short period while I earn the $6K (to get to 40 SS points) such that the 183 day residency requirement is not met. Does this mean that I wouldnt be a US resident for 2014 tax purposes and that I would only pay 2014 US taxes on that income earned in the US ?
Thanks
JJDD
I do have one more question linked to this topic.
Say I work in 2014 for 4 weeks to get 4 extra SS credits (to total 40), and then I leave the US to work elsewhere. And say that I meet the 183 day residency requirement at the time I depart (183 days in last 3 years); the US would then consider me resident for tax purposes for all of 2014. Does this mean that I will have pay the US taxes on my worldwide income for the entire 2014 year (except for whatever treaties may be in place for the country I go to) ?
And conversely, say I am outside the US in 2014 for the short period while I earn the $6K (to get to 40 SS points) such that the 183 day residency requirement is not met. Does this mean that I wouldnt be a US resident for 2014 tax purposes and that I would only pay 2014 US taxes on that income earned in the US ?
Thanks
JJDD
This is really 2 different issues.
How you are taxed for foreign income in the year you leave US is a whole other topic. It is not really a matter for this thread.
Earning SS credits only comes from 2 sources: US employment on which FICA is withheld by the employer, or self-employemt income which you report on your 1040 and pay (SE) self-employment tax.
It doesn't really matter for employment/FICA purposes where you live; if the money is earned in US from US employer, it will be subject to FICA, and will earn you credit, even if you live elsewhere.
Self-employemnt income however is slightly more complex, particularly if (a) you qualify for excluding the income either by treaty, or by the foreign earned income exclusion (form 2555) and (b) whether your foreign self-employment is in a country which has a totalization agreement absolving you of paying SE tax. In any event, if you do not pay SE tax on your self-employment income, you will not get SS credit.
How you are taxed for foreign income in the year you leave US is a whole other topic. It is not really a matter for this thread.
Earning SS credits only comes from 2 sources: US employment on which FICA is withheld by the employer, or self-employemt income which you report on your 1040 and pay (SE) self-employment tax.
It doesn't really matter for employment/FICA purposes where you live; if the money is earned in US from US employer, it will be subject to FICA, and will earn you credit, even if you live elsewhere.
Self-employemnt income however is slightly more complex, particularly if (a) you qualify for excluding the income either by treaty, or by the foreign earned income exclusion (form 2555) and (b) whether your foreign self-employment is in a country which has a totalization agreement absolving you of paying SE tax. In any event, if you do not pay SE tax on your self-employment income, you will not get SS credit.
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
.. and on taxation in the year of departure, days of presence is not the ket criteria. IRS treats you as resident for theentire year if you were resident in the previous year UNLESS you have a proven home elsewhere. This is whether you lesve jan 2nd, or december 30th
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best