On a previous post by 'hapless', he mentions getting a EIN # by RBC Direct Investing for his TFSA that is required to fill out Form 3520. Otherwise a EIN# must be requested to the IRS. If RBC DI has such a number, how did he go about to get it? I have contacted them about this and they have absolutely no idea what it refers to.
Please help.
Thx
RBC Direct Investing TFSA EIN#
Moderator: Mark T Serbinski CA CPA
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CdnAmerican
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:15 am
Yannman - You can request an EIN from the IRS. I think you'd file an SS-4 (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fss4.pdf) which you'd then fax in. I did this earlier this year, and it was a pretty simple process. Good luck!
Not a professional opinion.
Thanks,
However, after several communications with RBC Direct Investing, they assured me that the TFSA I hold with them is not a trust. Therefore they do not emit a 3520/3520A. They said it would come from them if it was a trust.
The only reference I found regarding the IRS considering TFSA's foreign trusts is on forums like this one and others. Nowhere on the IRS website do they stipulate that. So I gave up.
Am I wrong?
Yann
By the way I had to change my username from yannman to Yann as it was somehow deregistered.
However, after several communications with RBC Direct Investing, they assured me that the TFSA I hold with them is not a trust. Therefore they do not emit a 3520/3520A. They said it would come from them if it was a trust.
The only reference I found regarding the IRS considering TFSA's foreign trusts is on forums like this one and others. Nowhere on the IRS website do they stipulate that. So I gave up.
Am I wrong?
Yann
By the way I had to change my username from yannman to Yann as it was somehow deregistered.
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CdnAmerican
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:15 am
Very good question - I don't know. I treated mine as a trust and it caused a big pile of hassle for me and the IRS when no tax nor penalty was due. I don't know the right answer to that one - you'll get different opinions on this site, I think, and the specific type of TFSA will also determine if it's a trust. I have no guidance to offer - good luck!
Not a professional opinion.
Obviously the IRS does not weigh in on the exact status of every conceivable foreign account around the world. They give definitions, and it up to the taxpayer and thier advisor to figure out if it fits.
This is from an accounting firm, if you don't like forum-based information:
http://hutcheson.ca/articles/us-citizen ... a-accounts
This is from an accounting firm, if you don't like forum-based information:
http://hutcheson.ca/articles/us-citizen ... a-accounts
nelsona non grata. Non pro. Please Search previous posts, no situation is unique as you might think. Happy Browsing 
Oh believe me, I do like the info found on this forum. I learned more about US taxes here than any reading of Pubs for over 10 years.
What I was refering to to is that the 'RBC people' told me they never heard of TFSA being considered as foreign trusts by the IRS and I could not show them anything from the IRS to this effect. The only reference I had was from this forum and also the link you provided from Hutcheson.
So should I fill out the 3520-3520/A anyways, regardless of whether the RBC considers their TFSA a 'trust'? And obviously get the EIN# myself?
Thanks
Yann
Ps. By the way, Nelsona, I hope your are getting credit for all the knowledge you contribute to this forum. Much of what I learned here came from you. Thank you. And to the other contributors as well.
What I was refering to to is that the 'RBC people' told me they never heard of TFSA being considered as foreign trusts by the IRS and I could not show them anything from the IRS to this effect. The only reference I had was from this forum and also the link you provided from Hutcheson.
So should I fill out the 3520-3520/A anyways, regardless of whether the RBC considers their TFSA a 'trust'? And obviously get the EIN# myself?
Thanks
Yann
Ps. By the way, Nelsona, I hope your are getting credit for all the knowledge you contribute to this forum. Much of what I learned here came from you. Thank you. And to the other contributors as well.
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CdnAmerican
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:15 am
Well, my hassles are well-chornicled elsewhere, probably best on this thread:
http://forums.serbinski.com/viewtopic.php?t=6735
Here's the short version: I learned after several years of keeping several accounts that I interpreted to be trusts (TFSA, RESP, child's avings accounts), that I backfiled and reported these 3520/3520A forms for several years. THere was no unpaid tax, just forms that I had not submitted. I did these all on my own, but made a couple of mistakes - while also getting letters from the IRS about errors which were not actually errors. THese forms are quite hard to fill out, and if I were to go through this again I may well get professional help with it. My file was then sent from Ogden (where the 3520s go) to Philadelphia (where the International office is). I got numeorus form letters requesting info; I sent replies; I continued to get letters; I sent replies, and eventually I got multiple penalties of $10K for not replying. I was able to speak with an agent who cleared this up after a few calls and lots of stress. In the end, I did not owe any money. Note that no money was owed, I think, because a) I did not evade taxes in the first place, and b) I filed under the amnesty, of sorts, afforded to non-US residents who wanted to catch up on their taxes (see IRS FAQ for that info) whose mistake was in not comleting information forms, rather than not filing the 1040 or not paying taxes they owed.
At the same time, note that this took roughly 14 months from my first submission until the final letter clearing me of any penalty. Again, with professional help, this probably would've been a bit smoother. That's my fault. At the same time, I probably did save a reaosnalbe pile of money by doing it myself, but at the expense of my own stress and time.
That's a long story but there are tons of dull details I have left out too. The take-home messages seem to be: a) make absolutely sure that if a 3520 is, in fact, required. I did this for savings accounts which may not have actually been trusts. THe 3520 seems to be necessary for some but not all TFSA's. b) If you send in multiple forms at once, do everything you can to keep them separate. I would put them in separate envelopes with separate cover letters (probably in a single larger envelope, however, to save on postage). (Credit to primo, I think, for discovering this tidbit.) c) Pay for ExpressPost or whateer you need to pay to get a receipt on your submission. The extra money I spent on this was invaluable in proving that I had, in fact, responded to their queries, even though it wasn't noted in the IRS computer. d) I have still never heard of anyone who was in this kind of situation who ever had to pay a penalty. I heard of several people who had lots of hassle in getting this cleared up (again, see that other thread for details), but across threads I have never seen anyone who had to pay for a delinquent 3520.
I'd be curious if nelsona or anyone else knows of such a situation where a penalyt was levied that was actually paid in such an instance?
I hope that helps! Good luck!
http://forums.serbinski.com/viewtopic.php?t=6735
Here's the short version: I learned after several years of keeping several accounts that I interpreted to be trusts (TFSA, RESP, child's avings accounts), that I backfiled and reported these 3520/3520A forms for several years. THere was no unpaid tax, just forms that I had not submitted. I did these all on my own, but made a couple of mistakes - while also getting letters from the IRS about errors which were not actually errors. THese forms are quite hard to fill out, and if I were to go through this again I may well get professional help with it. My file was then sent from Ogden (where the 3520s go) to Philadelphia (where the International office is). I got numeorus form letters requesting info; I sent replies; I continued to get letters; I sent replies, and eventually I got multiple penalties of $10K for not replying. I was able to speak with an agent who cleared this up after a few calls and lots of stress. In the end, I did not owe any money. Note that no money was owed, I think, because a) I did not evade taxes in the first place, and b) I filed under the amnesty, of sorts, afforded to non-US residents who wanted to catch up on their taxes (see IRS FAQ for that info) whose mistake was in not comleting information forms, rather than not filing the 1040 or not paying taxes they owed.
At the same time, note that this took roughly 14 months from my first submission until the final letter clearing me of any penalty. Again, with professional help, this probably would've been a bit smoother. That's my fault. At the same time, I probably did save a reaosnalbe pile of money by doing it myself, but at the expense of my own stress and time.
That's a long story but there are tons of dull details I have left out too. The take-home messages seem to be: a) make absolutely sure that if a 3520 is, in fact, required. I did this for savings accounts which may not have actually been trusts. THe 3520 seems to be necessary for some but not all TFSA's. b) If you send in multiple forms at once, do everything you can to keep them separate. I would put them in separate envelopes with separate cover letters (probably in a single larger envelope, however, to save on postage). (Credit to primo, I think, for discovering this tidbit.) c) Pay for ExpressPost or whateer you need to pay to get a receipt on your submission. The extra money I spent on this was invaluable in proving that I had, in fact, responded to their queries, even though it wasn't noted in the IRS computer. d) I have still never heard of anyone who was in this kind of situation who ever had to pay a penalty. I heard of several people who had lots of hassle in getting this cleared up (again, see that other thread for details), but across threads I have never seen anyone who had to pay for a delinquent 3520.
I'd be curious if nelsona or anyone else knows of such a situation where a penalyt was levied that was actually paid in such an instance?
I hope that helps! Good luck!
Not a professional opinion.