2010 Roth IRA Conversion

This is our main tax information forum which deals with topics concerning Canadians living and working in the U.S., U.S. citizens contemplating working in Canada, and all aspects of Canadian and U.S. income tax and related adminstrative issues.

Moderator: Mark T Serbinski CA CPA

Post Reply
papablake
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:28 am

2010 Roth IRA Conversion

Post by papablake »

I am planning on returning to Canada after 5 years in the US and plan to leave behind my IRA, rather than pay any early redemption penalties. I was considering using the option to convert my IRA to a Roth IRA. I see that the 2010 conversion allows you to claim the conversion income spread evenly over the 2011-2012 tax years to ease the immediate tax hit. i will be a canadian resident in 2011 and 2012, will this deferred conversion be considered a contribution to a Roth IRA while a Canadian resident (and thus not receive the tax-free distribution benefits of a Roth)? If so, i obviously will avoid this route!

Any help would be great, thanks.
nelsona
Posts: 18364
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:33 pm
Location: Nowhere, man

Post by nelsona »

No, the conversion takes place in 2010, and before you arrive in canada.

the spread of tax over the following years is a non-event in the eyes of CRA.

What you may have to consider however is what the taxrate of the conversion will be in 2011 and 2012, if you file as a US non-resident. It will likely be the treaty flat rate of 15% filed on a 1040NR. You would have to file a full-fledged 1040 to see if you could get lower than this.
nelsona non grata. Non pro. Please Search previous posts, no situation is unique as you might think. Happy Browsing :D
papablake
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:28 am

Post by papablake »

Thanks for the quick response.

One add-on:
Say i file a 1040NR in 2011 and 2012 and pay 15% US tax.
Now i also file my Canadian taxes as a resident and income earner in Canada.
Assuming i'm in the top bracket in Canada, do i have to then claim the Roth conversion income as world income on my Cdn return, getting credit for the 15% US tax paid mind you, and thus effectively end up paying the top Canadian marginal on the Roth conversion income?
nelsona
Posts: 18364
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:33 pm
Location: Nowhere, man

Post by nelsona »

As I said, the conversion, if done before you arrive in canada, is a non-event in canada. The payment of tax in US at a later date means nothing in canada.
nelsona non grata. Non pro. Please Search previous posts, no situation is unique as you might think. Happy Browsing :D
NECdn
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:03 am
Location: Canada

Post by NECdn »

Regarding the 15% flat tax rate on the 1040NR. I just downloaded the 2009 1040NR and I see in the tax table (p. 88), for a taxable income of $99,999 married filing separately the tax is $22,125. But that is not 15% - how does one get the 15% rate?
nelsona
Posts: 18364
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:33 pm
Location: Nowhere, man

Post by nelsona »

Pension income is not effectively connected income, thus it is taxed at flat rate.
nelsona non grata. Non pro. Please Search previous posts, no situation is unique as you might think. Happy Browsing :D
nelsona
Posts: 18364
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:33 pm
Location: Nowhere, man

Post by nelsona »

Technically, Roth conversion *could* be reported as connected income (line 16) and taxed at progressive rates. As NECdn pointed out, this would likely be a lower tax than the 15% treaty rate.
nelsona non grata. Non pro. Please Search previous posts, no situation is unique as you might think. Happy Browsing :D
NECdn
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:03 am
Location: Canada

Post by NECdn »

Two questions:

1) Is it safe to assume when we talk about converting to a Roth IRA we can do this from a 403(b) or 457?

2) Can a conversion to a Roth IRA done in 2011 be fully deferred to 2012?
nelsona
Posts: 18364
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:33 pm
Location: Nowhere, man

Post by nelsona »

1. IRA, 401(k), 403(b) yes. 457 check with manager
2. No. Only 2010 conversions qualify for deferral.
nelsona non grata. Non pro. Please Search previous posts, no situation is unique as you might think. Happy Browsing :D
cocojambo
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:57 am

Post by cocojambo »

Is this the same as non-resident alien?

An alien is any individual who is not a U.S. citizen or U.S. national. A nonresident alien is an alien who has not passed the green card test or the substantial presence test.

Who Must File

If you are any of the following, you must file a return:

* A nonresident alien individual engaged or considered to be engaged in a trade or business in the United States during the year. You must file even if:
o Your income did not come from a trade or business conducted in the United States,
o You have no income from U.S. sources, or
o Your income is exempt from income tax.
However, if your only U.S. source income is wages in an amount less than the personal exemption amount (see Publication 501), you are not required to file.
* A nonresident alien individual not engaged in a trade or business in the United States with U.S. income on which the tax liability was not satisfied by the withholding of tax at the source.

I don't see the 15% flat tax rate anywhere either, it all depends on your annual income.

Also since you are leaving the United States, be sure to read this:

Before leaving the United States, all aliens (with certain exceptions) must obtain a certificate of compliance. This document, also popularly known as the sailing permit or departure permit, must be secured from the IRS before leaving the U.S. You will receive a sailing or departure permit after filing a Form 1040-C (PDF) or Form 2063 (PDF).
Source: http://www.definerothira.com

Even if you have left the United States and filed a Form 1040-C, U.S. Departing Alien Income Tax Return (PDF), on departure, you still must file an annual U.S. income tax return. If you are married and both you and your spouse are required to file, you must each file a separate return, unless one of the spouses is a U.S. citizen or a resident alien, in which case the departing alien could file a joint return with his or her spouse (Refer to Nonresident Spouse Treated as a Resident).
Post Reply