ITIN

This is our main tax information forum which deals with topics concerning Canadians living and working in the U.S., U.S. citizens contemplating working in Canada, and all aspects of Canadian and U.S. income tax and related adminstrative issues.

Moderator: Mark T Serbinski CA CPA

Post Reply
KG
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:26 am
Location: USA

ITIN

Post by KG »

I apologise for this long post.

When I submitted 1040NR for 2007, I had enclosed an ITIN application for my wife (who is on a TD visa) along with notarized copies of the following four pages:
-Passport photo page (Canadian),
-both sides of the I-94 card (one side shows the TD visa for my wife, and the reverse side has my name as the principal applicant)
-State Identification card (received from the state where we live).
On the W7 application form, I had checked option 'g' for dependent/spouse of a nonresident alien holding a US visa (TN) as I am considered a non-resident alien since we moved to US on TN/TD in the second -half of 2007. We had done everything asked for on the W7, filed it along with my 1040NR and sent the forms to the ITIN office at Austin.

A month later, we received a letter indicating that we should provide supporting identification document (such as passport page, visa page, driver’s license or a State ID). We had provided exactly these at the time of application. We took one more set of notarized documents to the local IRS office. The official there checked and stamped all the documents with the IRS seal and said that he would send these directly to the ITIN office and we should receive the ITIN in 6 weeks.

A few days ago, we received another letter from ITIN that our application was rejected because we did not provide all the information requested in the previous letter, or that they could not process the application with the information we provided. For now, my tax return has been sent to the IRS and it seems spousal allowance will not be granted.

Whenever we call the ITIN telephone service centre (which is located somewhere in Philadelphia), we get different information-some staff members are downright rude to answer properly, only one said that the country of birth and citizenship were entered incorrectly in their system (our application had the correct entry which is also supported by the passport page). In fact, when we submitted the documents the second time, I had enclosed a letter pointing to this error and asking them to make appropriate changes. They had not done that either. Now they have written to us that if we want, we can reapply with the appropriate supporting document or exception document. I have gone through every line of the W-7 instructions and as for as I can see, we have complied with every requirement. Neither the Philadelphia telephone centre staff nor we can talk to the ITIN office directly. (One of the tel centre staff told us not to send the passport but send notarized copies and I kept telling him that we sent only notarized copies and he was ranting about the rules and that he was reading from the Instructions. Another staff member told me not to go to the local IRS office as the staff there just may not forward the documents properly).

The official at the ITIN, in two letters, could not even bother to point out exactly what is the specific defect in our application. I want to bring this to the notice of the highest official in this IRS/ITIN set up so that others are not subjected to this stupid, inefficient, bureaucratic procedure.

Can Nelsona or any forum members suggest any solution that had worked for others?
Is there anything we can do first to get the ITIN for my wife and then to make the official complaint, which will be seen by someone other than the person, who handled our file?
KG
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:26 am
Location: USA

ITIN-for TD

Post by KG »

Other Canadian TD holders must have had terrible, bad (and good experiences) dealing with the ITIN office. Is it just that our application landed with someone who just could not bother to correct his/her mistake, or did not understand that TD visa (status) holders are ineligible for SSN? The fact that many bureaucrats in the US do not understand that Canadians do not get a separate visa page on their passports like the H1B or J1 visa holders from other countries. The visa stamp is on the I-94 card itself and I had explained this in my letter to the ITIN office. We need to educate these bureaucrats. Would be helpful if others can share their experience.
nelsona
Posts: 18311
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:33 pm
Location: Nowhere, man

Post by nelsona »

Getting the ITIN, particularly while living in US has generally been a piece of cake, although the documantation burden is increasing.

Consider this your first experience in dealing with the US bureaucracy which, like the Cdn one, is peopled by a highly UNmotivated workforce, but which is, unlike the Cdn govt, manned by highly UN-educated workforce. If you are her long ewnough you will surely encounter the same 'service' when delaing with immigration and social security.


One tip, though, NEVER bother phoning IRS, and don't bother with local offices. Use their website for information, and regular mail.

And NEVER EVER send an original document to any US govt agency.
nelsona non grata. Non pro. Please Search previous posts, no situation is unique as you might think. Happy Browsing :D
KG
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:26 am
Location: USA

ITIN

Post by KG »

Thank you Nelsona for the efforts you take to help everyone. I just wanted to update my case regarding the ITIN so that others may find it useful in future. My advice is to keep applying-preferably a new application should help. For us, they kept asking for the same supporting identification documents (we had provided notarized copies of the passport and I-94 page 3 times). Finally they asked us to resubmit a new application (has same details and with the same supporting documentation). This time we got an ITIN within 10 days. We had spent over 3 months in the first round and got our documents notarized for a total of 4 times, wasting so much of our time.

I suspect that in the first round, someone at the ITIN office had made a serious mistake (entering the country of birth incorrectly in the computer), and I think the employee did not know how, or did not want to make an amendment to the computer file. For the most part, the ITIN call centre has employees who just tell us what is on the computer terminal which is the same as what we have on the denial letter. Several times, we were given dubious and incorrect advice, as some of them realise that the procedures employed by the Austin office is just so irrational and unpredictable. However, I must mention that I met an extremely helpful and a very professional woman IRS official at the local IRS office. She somehow managed to contact the Austin ITIN office (even the local IRS office does not have the Austin office number) when trying to find out why the application was rejected first time around, and even she was not given a valid or satisfactory explanation. I also suspect that the person who handled our file at Austin did not know that Canadians will have only the I-94 card and will not have a separate visa page. I had to explain in a letter regarding this, and this time, it seems the application landed with someone knowledgeable. Prior to this, I contacted a few ITIN acceptance agents who would charge $50-$80 and they said that they normally send documents 3-4 times before they are approved. What is the point of going through these agents then? It seems so strange that a govt office is wasting so much of everyone’s time and effort for a number which is not even valid for employment. And these people complain about procedures in other countries when they travel.
craudiu
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:09 am

Post by craudiu »

Sorry for ressurecting such an old topic... but I am (3 years later!) going through the very same problem! Let me rant a bit.
It is absolutely insane that NOBODY can give you a straight answer like "your application was rejected because of *THIS*".
Every attendant gives you a different response. Mostly they just say the same thing as in the letter (missing documentation) even though the required documentation WAS submitted. Some just say "then I don't know why it has been rejected, you have to reapply". Like nelsona said, they are completely UN-educated and unprepared for the job.
That is ridiculously frustrating. I got the ITINs for my wife and one of my kids after 2 tries (being suspended both times due to "missing supporting documentation") and I'll have to apply for a third time for the other kid. THEN I will have to ammend the return in order to get my proper refund... which means it'll probably be coming by the time the 2011 tax return is due!
nelsona
Posts: 18311
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:33 pm
Location: Nowhere, man

Post by nelsona »

You should (repaet, should) be able to file your return along with the W-7 and not have to amend the return afterwards. But, good luck doing that.
nelsona non grata. Non pro. Please Search previous posts, no situation is unique as you might think. Happy Browsing :D
craudiu
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:09 am

Post by craudiu »

The 2010 return was already filed with the W-7s for the first ITIN application. All 3 ITINs were rejected and then they processed the return without the exemptions. I even got a (much smaller) refund. Now I'll have to amend it to get the rest... when I am done with the last ITIN.
blairgoates
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:35 pm

notorized is not acceptable

Post by blairgoates »

You mention that you had your copes "notorized". Notorized copies by Cdn lawyrs or notoary publics are not acceptable to the IRS. They have to be certified by a IRS Certifying Acceptance Agent.
craudiu
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:09 am

Post by craudiu »

I had them notarized by a US public notary, since I commute to the US daily anyways.
Post Reply