I'm a Canadian citizen, US resident (long time with various TNs).
In my time in the US, I've earned the required 40 credits to collect Social Security.
When I return to Canada and become a Canadian resident / US non-resident again, after waiting many, many years for me to get to 65 years of age, and assuming there's lolly left to dole out by the Gov't for benefits ...
1. Can / should I collect the US social security in Canada?
2. Can / should I transfer my benefits to Canada into the CPP plan where Canada then controls / pays me?
3. As I have earnings from before leaving Canada, and assuming I have them in the future, can / should I collect benefits from 1 country or both countries?
Thx. for any answers.
Collect US Social Security or CAN CPP?
Moderator: Mark T Serbinski CA CPA
1. You WILL collect SS. You have no choice.
2. You cannot 'transfer' SS to CPP. You could have 'used' CPP eligibility to make yourself eligible for SS, but you don't need it, since you meet SS requirements on their own.
3. You will collect both, as it only takes 1 year of CPP to collect, and you already have this.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
2. You cannot 'transfer' SS to CPP. You could have 'used' CPP eligibility to make yourself eligible for SS, but you don't need it, since you meet SS requirements on their own.
3. You will collect both, as it only takes 1 year of CPP to collect, and you already have this.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
I am also in a similar situation but have to work in the US for several years to earn 40 credits.
I had the impression that one can not collect both (SS and CPP), as benefits cancel each other due to bilateral agreements. I heard that each application requires to fill "Do you earn any other pension...", which works against us.
Jaspal
I had the impression that one can not collect both (SS and CPP), as benefits cancel each other due to bilateral agreements. I heard that each application requires to fill "Do you earn any other pension...", which works against us.
Jaspal
No. Your SS will be reduced regardless of where you collect it, because of your foreign 'SS' (CPP).
In fact, in terms of tax treatment of SS/CPP it would be better to retire in US, since your CPP would only be 85% taxable in US, rather than 100% if living in Canada (your SS will be 85% taxable regardless), and your CPP/OAS will not be subject to any clawback if you live in US, while it would be if you live in Canada.
A poster on grasmick had this very exprience. Ended up keeping about 10K less living in Canada than in US.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
In fact, in terms of tax treatment of SS/CPP it would be better to retire in US, since your CPP would only be 85% taxable in US, rather than 100% if living in Canada (your SS will be 85% taxable regardless), and your CPP/OAS will not be subject to any clawback if you live in US, while it would be if you live in Canada.
A poster on grasmick had this very exprience. Ended up keeping about 10K less living in Canada than in US.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
<i>"2. You cannot 'transfer' SS to CPP. You could have 'used' CPP eligibility to make yourself eligible for SS, but you don't need it, since you meet SS requirements on their own."</i>
I'm planning to move back to Canada in a few months, and will have only earned 32 or so SS credits. I'm curious to know what you mean by using CPP eligibility to make oneself eligible for SS.
Thanks.
I'm planning to move back to Canada in a few months, and will have only earned 32 or so SS credits. I'm curious to know what you mean by using CPP eligibility to make oneself eligible for SS.
Thanks.
The SSA and CPP websites go into detail on the totalization of SS/CPP, so Iwon't go into it here.
Corrected:
At retirement, you will contact CPP in Canada and they will co-ordiate a claim with SSA for you to get credit for the needed quarters to make up the 40 quarters you need.
Your SS will be prorated to roughly 32/40ths of what you would have gotten had you contributed 40 quarters. (it will be less that this, actually).
You will get both SS amd CPP (and OAS by the way) at retirement, regardless of where you live.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
Corrected:
At retirement, you will contact CPP in Canada and they will co-ordiate a claim with SSA for you to get credit for the needed quarters to make up the 40 quarters you need.
Your SS will be prorated to roughly 32/40ths of what you would have gotten had you contributed 40 quarters. (it will be less that this, actually).
You will get both SS amd CPP (and OAS by the way) at retirement, regardless of where you live.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
I've read the posts here but I'm still learning about social security.
I'm 40, Canadian. I lived and worked in the US for almost 11 years, so I have met the 40 quarters rule. I plan to remain in Canada for the rest of my life and work until age 60. This should give me 28-30 years working in Canada. Am I correct in understanding that:
- I will be eligible for CPP? Is it reduced because I ddn't work my entire career in Canada?
- I will be eligible for Soc Security, but it will be reduced. How much though? By whatever I earn in CPP?
Thanks
I'm 40, Canadian. I lived and worked in the US for almost 11 years, so I have met the 40 quarters rule. I plan to remain in Canada for the rest of my life and work until age 60. This should give me 28-30 years working in Canada. Am I correct in understanding that:
- I will be eligible for CPP? Is it reduced because I ddn't work my entire career in Canada?
- I will be eligible for Soc Security, but it will be reduced. How much though? By whatever I earn in CPP?
Thanks
Your CCP will not be reduced, it will merely reflect the level of your contributions, which were affected by your sojourn in US. It's as if you stopped working for 11 years.
You SS however, according to current law, will actually be reduced, simply by the fact that you are getting a pension for work performed while not paying SS. It is called Windfall Elimination Provision.
It is a complex formula, which, given the unstabel state of SS at the moment, is not worth worrying about at this point.
You will get SS and CPP, and OAS too. By the way, you would have collected SS with as little as 18 months work in US.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
You SS however, according to current law, will actually be reduced, simply by the fact that you are getting a pension for work performed while not paying SS. It is called Windfall Elimination Provision.
It is a complex formula, which, given the unstabel state of SS at the moment, is not worth worrying about at this point.
You will get SS and CPP, and OAS too. By the way, you would have collected SS with as little as 18 months work in US.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
The 20 year rule is correct, however, as Martin as overlooked, the totalization agreement allows for time spent in US (paying SS) to count towrds the 20 year eligibility to collect OAS outside Canada (rather than for only 6 months).
Also, to correct Martin futher, the 1952 dat applies not to birth but to age of majority, ie, if one turned 18 before 1952, and spent as little as one year in Canada, and a toatl of 20 in canada and US, the will collect some OAS.
A case in point: I have just assisted a Cdn woman, living in uS since 1962, who is 72 years old, to collect 9/40ths of regular OAS, based on the 9 years she lived in Canada as an adult after 1951. She will collect this forever, based on the fact that she contributed to SS for the required 11 more years; thus meeting the 20 year out-of-country payment requirement.
The nice thing about this was that HRDC granted her her OAS all the ay back to 65, even though she only filed 3 years ago (yes. it took that long to process).
Also, since she is in US, it is only taxed in US (at the 85% inclusion rate like SS) and will not be subject to any clawback.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>
Also, to correct Martin futher, the 1952 dat applies not to birth but to age of majority, ie, if one turned 18 before 1952, and spent as little as one year in Canada, and a toatl of 20 in canada and US, the will collect some OAS.
A case in point: I have just assisted a Cdn woman, living in uS since 1962, who is 72 years old, to collect 9/40ths of regular OAS, based on the 9 years she lived in Canada as an adult after 1951. She will collect this forever, based on the fact that she contributed to SS for the required 11 more years; thus meeting the 20 year out-of-country payment requirement.
The nice thing about this was that HRDC granted her her OAS all the ay back to 65, even though she only filed 3 years ago (yes. it took that long to process).
Also, since she is in US, it is only taxed in US (at the 85% inclusion rate like SS) and will not be subject to any clawback.
<i>nelsona non grata... and non pro</i>