WEP elimination HR82 impact on Canadians in USA

[davidrbaker3971]

The senate in USA is on verge of passing a bill this week to eliminate the WEP . Looks like retroactive back to Dec 2023.
Anyone researched this and verified it will also eliminate WEP impact on Canadians in USA?
I believe it should as it is being totally eliminated.

[nelsona]

The devil would be in the details even IF... IF it passes. Would it be retroactive? Would it compensate lost SS from the past 30 years? Or, would it only affect future payments. And, most importantly would it be "un-applied" to workers with foreign pensions, or simply to those with SS-exempt wages (Govt, etc).?

Let us see it become law first.

[nelsona]

This has been attempted, almost yearly, for decades.

[sofarsogood]

The WEP has been repealed. HR 82 was passed by Senate 76-20.

[MaggieA]

Responding to some of Nelsona's questions, based on the text of the bill https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-con ... ll/82/text

Q: Would it be retroactive? Would it compensate lost SS from the past 30 years? Or, would it only affect future payments.
A: Applies to payments after December 2023. So it is retroactive to all of 2024, but not prior to that.

Q: And, most importantly would it be "un-applied" to workers with foreign pensions, or simply to those with SS-exempt wages (Govt, etc).?
A: To my reading, it simply completely removes WEP from the Social Security Act. There is nothing about treating foreign pensions differently from other kinds of SS-exempt wages.

I personally am of left-leaning views and didn't object to the progressive intention of WEP. I think the calculation was byzantine and there seem to be lots of anecdotes about people being penalized to an extent that seemed decidedly unjust. I think it's an object lesson in policies needing to be understandable in order for the public and politicians to support them.

Canadian residents (like me) looking forward to an increase in our SS because of this are reminded that we have to pay Canadian income tax on 85% of our SS, so we won't get all the increase in our pockets. Still, it's a welcome surprise. Astonishing.

[nelsona]

Thanks for the extra research, Maggie. Hopefully Biden is not so addled as to forget to sign it into law. The vote results do make it veto-proof in any event.

Those of us in the states also pay tax on 85% of the SS and CPP/OAS -- albeit at a lower tax rate -- so don't feel too bad. Only very low income taxpayers pay less than that.

[MaggieA]

Darn, I belatedly realized my comments above include a small error. I wrote "Applies to payments after December 2023." That was wrong. The exact text reads "The amendments made by this Act shall apply with respect to monthly insurance benefits payable under title II of the Social Security Act for months after December 2023."

The difference is that Social Security is paid in arrears, so the January payment is always for the benefit earned in December. According to the text, the WEP repeal will not affect the payment received in January 2024, because that payment was for December 2023. If you're trying to figure out what your extra payment for 2024 will be, I believe it will be 11 times the monthly difference (with and without WEP) for 2024, not 12 times.

[nelsona]

Semantics.
As you state it is for PAYMENTS after December 2023, not BENEFITS EARNED after December 2023. So could be 12 times for 2024, and whatever many months it takes for implementation.

Wouldn't be surprised if one has to make a formal application to reverse WEP.

[bc075259]

Well, I'll admit I was not really expecting this to get as far as it has, although I did sign the various petitions and emailed my Senators urging their support. The latest I've heard it has just been sent to POTUS for signing. My QPP was cut back by 76% due to WEP, I filed a 'Request for Reconsideration' almost 2 years ago and have never had a reply, when I call, they said it's still in the queue. BTW, I did see that there has been a notice posted as a guideline for SSA employees on how to handle inquiries, so far it seems like it could be just be an automatic adjustment. https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/reference ... 24031540PM

[bc075259]

bc075259 wrote:
> My QPP was cut back by 76% due to WEP,
Intended to say "my SS was cut back by 76% of my QPP amount."

[formerpatriot]

As of December 28, Biden has not yet signed the bill into law.
He has until the 31st... and he is on vacation.
Do not celebrate yet.

[formerpatriot]

My wife started her SS in mid-2023 and was subjected to the WEP because of her QPP.
How do we find out how much her SS would be without the WEP?

[nelsona]

I'm in the same boat. When she applied, she should have been given a "raw" SS value, and then the WEP-corrected amount. She should receive 12 times that difference (mine was $92), adjusted for the 2023 COLA factor, plus roughly the same amount for every month in 2025 it takes to implement the change.

Your yearly statements, up until the year she took her SS, would also have this raw figure.

[MaggieA]

In answer to the questions about how to know how much SS should be without WEP, if you download SSA's detailed calculator from https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/anypia/anypia.html and enter all your information, it'll tell you. You should be able to exactly reproduce what you're getting. It's a bit tedious to enter all your information once, but then it's stored and you can play with different scenarios.

Only the Windows version is up to date. The Mac version is old and useless.

[nelsona]

The statements one downloaded from SSA BEFORE taking your benefit gives this value. The problem with the calculator is that it is current, not historical, so can't backtrack when you took your benefit. For those that have taken their benefit, they should have received the WEP breakdown when their monthly benefit (I knew mine, bc075259 knew theirs).