Just found out - am I bankrupt now?

mrbacon · Post by **mrbacon** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:22 pm

ahhh ok will do

and yes, I should get a professional on this. maybe they can answer most of this in a consulting fee. but, I had read online of people spending a few thousand before they got anywhere and it wasn't the best work.

though this serbinski guy seems like a pro, you guys are so super awesome and I always like to learn what I'm talking about before spending hundreds of $ per hour.

nelsona · Post by **nelsona** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:26 pm

Serbinski is a pro, but pros are expensive, and no pro has a 100% pristine track record.
In my opinion all pros imn Canada having been charging WAY TOO MUCH for this OVDI etc service.

Robabaly because they lost all their tax prep income to the online do-it-yourselfers.

mrbacon · Post by **mrbacon** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:03 pm

ya man, seriously seen people in similar situations spend $15k+ just on the accountant! lol not even a lawyer, how....

If you think its possible that I can get away with paying less than $5000 in penalties, I'll probably try filling it out myself.

mrbacon · Post by **mrbacon** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:31 am

if it makes any difference I have a few kids (babies), wife isn't working. so, if that reduces the penalties or I get a lot of tax rebates that end up in profit from filing in the U.S, then even better and I won't have to consider relinquishing at all (which I'd rather avoid, if possible)

nelsona · Post by **nelsona** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:37 am

As was mentioned, you wont be owing any US INCOME tax, hardly anyone living in Canada does. Its the foreign reporting failures that will cost you.

mrbacon · Post by **mrbacon** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:21 am

I see, so its really not something I can suppress through filing smarts. :(

In your experience what would the range be of these penalties for someone in my situation?

Considering I never filed before and beg for mercy.

nelsona · Post by **nelsona** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:59 am

The info has been posted on this thread and elsewhere.

The size of the penalty should not influence your actions, which should be to become compliant.

CdnAmerican · Post by **CdnAmerican** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:34 pm

I'd still argue the chances of a penalty are low, unless you have been evading tax (that is, you have tax that you owe that you have not paid). If your tax is < $1500 then you should qualify as low risk under the new IRS filing procedure for people in your situation.

The chances are low and not zero, of course, but your situation sounds fairly typical for lots of people on this board. I wonder - Would others think I am underestimating chances of a penalty? Please weigh in if so) Either way, use of a professional now would likely not affect whether a penalty is levied - it would just improve the chances (maybe, with the right professional) that they are now done correctly.

mrbacon · Post by **mrbacon** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:52 am

I think a penalty discussion and reports on various sizes of penalties would be really useful.

I will search for key words specific to penalties.

And still curious about the range of penalties. The thing is, I have a family to feed. So does everyone else, but I'm not the one applying magical rules to other people's lives threatening to take away their food while changing these rules every few years at a whim.

nelsona · Post by **nelsona** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:08 am

I think we've already covered this elsewhere, but feel free to research and present your findings.

exPenn · Post by **exPenn** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:57 pm

The CRA has stated several times that they will not collect 'administrative penalties' on behalf of the IRS. So as long as you owe no US taxes, even if the IRS levels penalties against you, as long as you never visit the US again there is very little the IRS can do to you.

hello3520 · Post by **hello3520** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:04 pm

Here is the link to the CRA website that states they will not collect IRS penalties:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nh ... html#q2-22

I would be surprised if you where arrested or detained in the US as a result of non compliance at this time. The fallout would be significant.

This may change in the future though.

mrbacon · Post by **mrbacon** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:12 pm

Yes, I have a feeling Canada will become more "U.S compliant" in a few years. They keep modifying the laws in the U.S, I can see them go south here after another Conservative win in the future.

MGeorge · Post by **MGeorge** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:19 pm

Hi mrbacon,

Regarding penalties, I haven't heard of one person in Canada getting failure to file, or FBAR (foreign bank account report - form 114) related penalties under these circumstances.
I found out in 2011, hired an accountant to back file. He enclosed a nice letter saying that I didn't know I had to file, and pretty please waive penalties and everything has been fine for me. Except I have a lot more paperwork to do every year.

For information, the accountant I hired said that he has prepared just over 100 of tax and info returns for people like us - and he has never heard of a penalty being assessed.

Consider that this is no guarantee - but it is information as I know it.

Best Regards.

MGeorge · Post by **MGeorge** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:22 pm

Another point. In my case, there was $0 in US tax owing (due to form 2555 and 1116) in the previous 6 years of returns (now it is only 3 in most cases). The reason the IRS accepts the "reasonable cause" for not filing - is; why would I try to duck out of a $0 tax liability by willfully not filing.

6 months after filing, I even called them, and they were perfectly nice to me.