I apologize if the question has been answered before,but I'll give it a shot.
I'm currently a CDN resident who will be moving to the US for the next six months due to the marriage.
I have stocks inside the RRSP and outside the RRSP.
Some of these stocks are US stocks,and some of them are CDN stocks...
I'd like to know what would be the best approach to my stocks from taxing perspective.
Should I move them to the US brokarage?Can I keep them in Canada?If I keep them in CA,what would be the implications?If I move them to the US,do I have to pay tax even If I don't sell them.
I don't wanna sell any of these stocks yet.
Thnx in advance.
what to do with my stocks after moving to the US
Moderator: Mark T Serbinski CA CPA
Remember that when leaving canada, you will be assessed and taxed on all your non-RRSP investments as if you sold them. This is the deemed dispositon tax part of your departure return; see the CRA Emigrants guide which explains how to file you departure tax return. It doesn't matter where the stocks are, they will be taxed even if not sold.
Once you leave Canada, you cannot trade stocks outside your RRSP with a Cdn broker. So these will have to be either sold or transfered to a US broker. If you sell them after leaving canada, you will only be taxed in US on the sale, because you have already delat with the Cdn tax with the deemed disposition tax. Transferring them does not trigger any further tax.
Note that we are talking stocks here. Cdn mutual funds outside your RRSP must be sold off.
Your RRSP can remain intact , but can only be dealt with by Cdn firm that is licensed in your state. TD Waterhouse is the only major discount broker that I know of that permits this in nearly all states. You should get this ironed out before leaving. You ned to specifically tell them that you are moving permanently to XX: Can you deal in my RRSP as a resident of XX?
Once you leave Canada, you cannot trade stocks outside your RRSP with a Cdn broker. So these will have to be either sold or transfered to a US broker. If you sell them after leaving canada, you will only be taxed in US on the sale, because you have already delat with the Cdn tax with the deemed disposition tax. Transferring them does not trigger any further tax.
Note that we are talking stocks here. Cdn mutual funds outside your RRSP must be sold off.
Your RRSP can remain intact , but can only be dealt with by Cdn firm that is licensed in your state. TD Waterhouse is the only major discount broker that I know of that permits this in nearly all states. You should get this ironed out before leaving. You ned to specifically tell them that you are moving permanently to XX: Can you deal in my RRSP as a resident of XX?
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
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ExpatAmerican
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:48 am
One other thing that you might want to keep in mind. If/when you move to the US and transfer your accounts, the US stocks and Canadian-US interlisted stocks will transfer fine (as they all trade on US exchanges). On the other hand, you may well find that many US brokerage firms do not have the ability to hold non-interlisted Canadian stocks or ETFs. Thus you may be not be able to transfer them at all. This could throw a wrench in your plans to continue to hang on to your current investment portfolio. A solution would be a broker (both the firm and the individual broker himself) licensed in both countries (or more specifically, the province in Canada you resided in for RRSP purposes, and the US state you will now be calling home for your cash account). Darrell Thompson at Blackmont Capital Inc. (Canadian business) and Blackmont Capital Corp. (for the US side) could help you with this. He can be reached toll-free at (866)775-7704.
ExpatAmerican
ExpatAmerican
I have a similar situation and someone suggested that I can keep my stocks until I become the resident of the US and then sell them. The idea is this: I have a huge capital loss. If I sell them I can not use the canadian capital loss agains the US capital gain when I move to Texas.
How do I do this? I have darn Nortel worth loss of $12k, which I intend to use when I move to the US and get some return there.
Please suggest if it can be done.
Ed
How do I do this? I have darn Nortel worth loss of $12k, which I intend to use when I move to the US and get some return there.
Please suggest if it can be done.
Ed
you don't have to sell them if u don't want to...
You just need to find a brokarega firm who allows you to have cdn stocks in US.
Call TD Waterhouse which is one of the biggest and reliable firm...Once u move to the US,u open up your TD Waterhouse account and u will be able to transfer them from ur current brokerege firm to the TD Waterhouse..
who is ur brokerage now?If u call TD Water house ,I'm sure they will help you..so don't sell them if u don't need it...
You just need to find a brokarega firm who allows you to have cdn stocks in US.
Call TD Waterhouse which is one of the biggest and reliable firm...Once u move to the US,u open up your TD Waterhouse account and u will be able to transfer them from ur current brokerege firm to the TD Waterhouse..
who is ur brokerage now?If u call TD Water house ,I'm sure they will help you..so don't sell them if u don't need it...
TD Waterhouse does not exist in US.
I think you mean TD Ameritrade.
Ed, you are correct that waiting to sell them til after you become US taxapayer will get you a capital loss that you can use in US PLUS you will have the capital loss in canada due to deemed disposition even without selling , so you 'win' both ways by getting your loss in both countries. You can carryforward your loss forever in canada if you ever go back, or carryback three years.
I think you mean TD Ameritrade.
Ed, you are correct that waiting to sell them til after you become US taxapayer will get you a capital loss that you can use in US PLUS you will have the capital loss in canada due to deemed disposition even without selling , so you 'win' both ways by getting your loss in both countries. You can carryforward your loss forever in canada if you ever go back, or carryback three years.
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
And you can always sell your stock thru Cdn broker. Its buying/trading that yopu cannot do. Sell a few weeks after you leave.
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best
Thanks Nelsona.
Actually, my brokerage is TD Waterhouse. I called them just now and they won't move my stocks to any other brokerage; including TD Ameritrade. In TD Waterhouse view, TD Ameritrade is a separate entity and I would have to open an accout (separate) myself and move my funds.
The good thing about TD over other banks (CIBC and BMO) is that BMO and CIBC won't allow buying of trades within RRSP (you can only sell them) but TD allows buy and sell of the trades. I talked to all the three today. But that's RRSP.
On the non registered accounts, I am just going to do what Nelsona suggested. I will hold on to the TD Waterhouse until Feb/Mar of 2010 (within 183 days) and sell them and claim capital loss in both the countries.
Just a quick question to Nelsona though, I know I can carry forward any capital losses indefinitely in Canada, is this true in US as well?
Actually, my brokerage is TD Waterhouse. I called them just now and they won't move my stocks to any other brokerage; including TD Ameritrade. In TD Waterhouse view, TD Ameritrade is a separate entity and I would have to open an accout (separate) myself and move my funds.
The good thing about TD over other banks (CIBC and BMO) is that BMO and CIBC won't allow buying of trades within RRSP (you can only sell them) but TD allows buy and sell of the trades. I talked to all the three today. But that's RRSP.
On the non registered accounts, I am just going to do what Nelsona suggested. I will hold on to the TD Waterhouse until Feb/Mar of 2010 (within 183 days) and sell them and claim capital loss in both the countries.
Just a quick question to Nelsona though, I know I can carry forward any capital losses indefinitely in Canada, is this true in US as well?
Ed -
When you get to the USA, call TD Ameritrade (or any other broker for that matter) and they'll have you fill out a transfer form. Your U.S. broker will take care of everything after that. Make sure to negotiate with the new broker to reimburse you for your transfer fees from TDW (or at least give you some free trades). If Ameritrade gives you any hassle call back (and talk to someone else) or find another broker.
Are you sure BMO Investorline can't do trades in your RRSP while residing in the USA? It was my understanding that they were registerred in most (although perhaps not all) US states.
When you get to the USA, call TD Ameritrade (or any other broker for that matter) and they'll have you fill out a transfer form. Your U.S. broker will take care of everything after that. Make sure to negotiate with the new broker to reimburse you for your transfer fees from TDW (or at least give you some free trades). If Ameritrade gives you any hassle call back (and talk to someone else) or find another broker.
Are you sure BMO Investorline can't do trades in your RRSP while residing in the USA? It was my understanding that they were registerred in most (although perhaps not all) US states.
Redblue -
You DO NOT have to sell any of your stocks. Just leave them at your current Canadian broker. As Nelsona said, you cannot buy/trade anymore in that account. But that is different than holding.
You just need to understand that several years from now if/when you start to sell stocks, you'll need to convert the cash to USD and then wire to a US broker before you can buy something else. Or you could transfer the whole account at that point.
You DO NOT have to sell any of your stocks. Just leave them at your current Canadian broker. As Nelsona said, you cannot buy/trade anymore in that account. But that is different than holding.
You just need to understand that several years from now if/when you start to sell stocks, you'll need to convert the cash to USD and then wire to a US broker before you can buy something else. Or you could transfer the whole account at that point.
Bruce:
thnx for the reply,but you made me confused.
I really don't care if I can't buy new stocks with my cdn broker;my only wish is to be able to hold my existing stocks 10-20 years from now..
IF I hold them with my CDN broker as a NON-CDN resident(after I move to US) ,don't I have to pay non-resident tax which is 25% now and who knows how much it would be in future...if I'm right ,then paying 25% tax ever year would be too expensive....if you can clarify me on this,much appriciated...
I was hoping that once I move to US ,I can open up an account with TD Ameritrade (or perhaps another one who is willing to accept the transfer)and ask my current broker Scotia-ITrade to transfer all my stocks to my US broker as is....hopefully it's doable....
thnx again.
thnx for the reply,but you made me confused.
I really don't care if I can't buy new stocks with my cdn broker;my only wish is to be able to hold my existing stocks 10-20 years from now..
IF I hold them with my CDN broker as a NON-CDN resident(after I move to US) ,don't I have to pay non-resident tax which is 25% now and who knows how much it would be in future...if I'm right ,then paying 25% tax ever year would be too expensive....if you can clarify me on this,much appriciated...
I was hoping that once I move to US ,I can open up an account with TD Ameritrade (or perhaps another one who is willing to accept the transfer)and ask my current broker Scotia-ITrade to transfer all my stocks to my US broker as is....hopefully it's doable....
thnx again.
Redblue, there is no 25% tax on sale of stocks once you leave canada. When you leave canada you report that you had the stocks, they were deemed sold, and that is it for Canada. This is known as deemed dipsosition when leaving canada, its on your departure return.
You only pay cap gains tax in the country you reside in after that, and only if you sell.
You can and should transfer you stock, but few US brokers can carry Cdn-traded stocks. But there are some.
You only pay cap gains tax in the country you reside in after that, and only if you sell.
You can and should transfer you stock, but few US brokers can carry Cdn-traded stocks. But there are some.
After 20 years, I am severely cutting back on responses. Do not ask specifically for my help. There are a few others on this board that can answer most questions. All the best