Canadian left US in '07; renounced green card in 2012 - help

shopgirl1 · Post by **shopgirl1** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:32 am

I moved from US back to Canada (Canadian citizen) and filed 1040 in '07 and '08. I did not have any US source income (just losses) in '09 onwards so I did not file. In Oct 2011, I received a notice from IRS stating my '09 return was due. I called and learned that my stock transactions in '09 and '10 were reported to the IRS which is why they were asking me to file. I did not file because I had huge losses in each year, but of course, the total transaction dollar volume was high (thanks to my broker) and the IRS phone agent told me I had to file because of that alone. Upon advising her I was a Canadian citizen/resident, she told me to file the 1040NR for '09 and '10.

At what point can I stop filing? I still have a 401k in the US and a small balance in a bank account and that's it.

Which forms do I need to file for each year? 1040NR? 8833?

Help! Nelson? Anyone???

nelsona · Post by **nelsona** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:56 am

2012, since that is when you renounced. And NOT 1040NR, since that is for non-citizens.

shopgirl1 · Post by **shopgirl1** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:24 am

Oi - this is not what the IRS agent advised.

So I need to file 1040 each year for '09, '10 and '11? What about 8833 and the 1040NR? Do I file those in '12?

Thanks in advance!

nelsona · Post by **nelsona** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:54 am

IRS telephlunkies are extremely unreliable. call another next week and you are bound to get an entirely different wrong answer.

You are looking to put IRS behind you. The best way to do this is to file the missing 1040's and you reneunciation paperwork. You won't owe any taxes, and you can do this with software.

Filing a treaty-based 1040NR will merely make them re-examine your entire paperwork history, and you can't do it with software and are bound to make a mistake.

If you had intended to file 1040NR and 8833, you should have done that all along (or renounced back then).

JGCA · Post by **JGCA** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:57 am

As you were told you do not file 1040NR this is for non residents, you renounced in 2012 so you file a 1040 also for 2012 . After this you no longer need to file anything more with IRS, 1040 NR will only be required if you receive any further income from US sources, if not no more filing required.

shopgirl1 · Post by **shopgirl1** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:13 am

By renounciation paperwork, do you mean file the i407 to abandon the green card? I did this in early Feb/12 (ie. a month ago). Do I need to file this with IRS too? If so, do I mail it to a tax center?

Thanks for the help - I have been tearing my hair out (literally) over the 1040NR instructions and trying to do them by hand.

nelsona · Post by **nelsona** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:09 pm

Lok for expatriation on IRS website. Yes, it will involve submitting your I-407, along with an IRS form of course (8854).

shopgirl1 · Post by **shopgirl1** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:46 pm

In reading the 8854 instructions, it is required to be filled by US citizens and long term residents (>8 out of past 15 years as GC holder). I am neither having stayed in US for 8 mos after receiving GC and GC holder for 6 years (including year acquired and counting full year for 2012) before renouncing.

Am I still required to file 8854?
Thanks.

nelsona · Post by **nelsona** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:29 pm

Read IRS Pub 519 on LTR, you may have to simple file the 8854 for info.

This is in your court now

shopgirl1 · Post by **shopgirl1** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:48 pm

Thanks very much.

shopgirl1 · Post by **shopgirl1** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:53 pm

I re-read the 8854 instructions and filing 8854 is mandatory for exiting. The key point is certifying compliance with past 5 year's tax filings and obligations.

Still puzzled as to how to file 8854 as soon as possible but the 2012 form is not available. Will use 2011 form and file it as soon as I can, although the 8854 instructions are to file it when that tax year's return is normally due.

shopgirl1 · Post by **shopgirl1** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:29 pm

Oi - can't file 2012 using 2011 form because it specifies the exit dates.

Any suggestions on how to early file 8854 to get it over and done with?

nelsona · Post by **nelsona** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:19 pm

If you renounce in 2012, you can't file anything until taxtime 2013, just like any other non-resident who has to file a return.

shopgirl1 · Post by **shopgirl1** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:41 pm

So if I file 8854 in 2013, do I need to file full year 1040 for 2012?

Or can I file 8833 to restrict the 1040 filing to partial year up to when I filed my i-407.

Or do I do a dual status?

Trying to minimize the crazy filing requirements for 2012 and especially if I can do it using software.

nelsona · Post by **nelsona** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:02 pm

you would be dual status, which would probably mean accounting for ALL reporting requirements for some part of 2012, if not all.